Special
meeting for General Business
Commission Special Meeting (Joint meeting with Board of
Trustees)
Zoning Commission Chair Karen Schoonover called the meeting
to order at
Below is a summary of the discussion comments relative to the review of the draft comprehensive plan revision.
Chair Schoonover - The Zoning Commission wanted to discuss with the Board of Trustees the status of the Lafayette Township Comprehensive Plan revision. We have been presented with a draft and feel there are some things missing, especially when compared to other plans that have been reviewed. Since the Board of Trustees are the ones who signed the contract starting the revision we felt that it would be beneficial for us to meet together to discuss what options there are and where we should go from here.
Chair Schoonover – There is a lot of information in the draft. By personally attending the steering committee meetings along with other members here there was a lot of community input but there are some very definitive nuts and bolts that are missing. We feel there is a lack of firm recommendations. We are not seeing definitive guidelines and implementation strategies.
Bowers – I attended a number of those meetings as well and I remember that there was mapping and there were discussions on very specific zoning recommendations and I don’t see those in this plan. Does anyone know why some of those things weren’t included?
Chair Schoonover – No, when we were meeting there was a great deal of focus on revision for the future of the township. Future land use was not a strong emphasis.
Trustee Bowers – A comprehensive plan is not a zoning land use plan but it should identify goals for land use in specific areas. It bothers me that this doesn’t pull it all together in one place. You can pull out different pieces and parts but you have to read the whole document to get there and I want to see something that glues it all together. I guess it’s not a matter of why it’s not done, let’s figure out what we need done and how to get it done.
Trustee Kehoe – Basically we were not involved in doing any comprehensive plan at all. We did not know what was going on as far as the team. We were led by the information in this contract of how it was to be done and how we were supposed to proceed. There was supposed to be public meetings and then have all this other information fed to us and we would decide where to go. Yet there wasn’t any ending to it. It was just a continuous what do you really want and it became a major wish list rather than what can we do to develop the township in the direction we want.
Trustee Bowers – So you are looking for more implementation tools as to recommendations on zoning to meet the goals that are set out, is that it?
Chair Schoonover – Definitely.
Folk – As a zoning commission board we were being told to wait until the comprehensive plan revision is done and we waited and waited thinking it was going to give us direction after the facilitator brought everything together. Then we got the draft and we see that it gives us no direction. We were told that legally the comprehensive plan has some legal implications and now it’s nothing we can use.
Trustee Bowers – I think you can pull the information out but you have to go dig.
Trustee Kehoe – We shouldn’t have to.
Trustee
Chair Schoonover – This Ohio State University Fact Sheet
(Dianne Wenslow located it) has some really good things in it. The plan should be comprehensive, should be
long-range, should be general but should focus on physical development – that’s
where I think it is lacking. The plan
should relate physical design proposals to community goals, should directly
relate what we want to the community goals.
The plan should first be a policy instrument and second a technical
instrument. There should be only one
official comprehensive plan and should be formally adopted by the legislative
body. We also know that it should be
legally defensible. There should be a
lengthy period of public debate prior to the adoption so you need to get a
final draft out to the people for a period of time. We as a community need to promote this. We have seen
Trustee Bowers – Exactly, there’s nothing in here saying where we can go and saying here’s the area that I’m interested in and these are the goals and recommendations for that area. I think the draft is very lacking in that. We need to figure out what we want to see changed, how we want to see it changed and go about addressing that in this draft in a timely manner.
Chair Schoonover – We have already spent a great deal of money – what are our options?
Throw this out? Get a new person to do it? Hire the Department of Planning Services? Or we could tell him what it is we are expecting from him for this plan. The Board of Trustees ultimately have to make that decision but I think we need to look at all the options and then go ahead and make sure we are doing something that is cost effective for the community. You also have to remember there was a year of steering committee meeting. We do not want to - however we decide to handle this - invalidate the information that those people brought to those meetings.
Shanley – One of the biggest bugs that we had as a township in dealing with projects that have come forward is that our zoning is based on water and sewer and not character based. I had hoped that the comprehensive plan would give us zoning that was defensible, character based, and I’m not seeing that. I don’t like to see money wasted but I would voice some concern about spending additional money on this gentleman.
Trustee Bowers – Ohio State Extension Service, Dave Civittolo, has done comprehensive planning and was a collaborative partner in this and the Department of Planning Services was a collaborative partner. Those would be two places we could go to see what they could do with this document to bring it more in focus with what it is our expectations are but we need to list what those expectations are. They are already collaborative partners in this process and have been involved in it. We would have to find out what the additional costs would be.
Fiscal Officer Bailey – Off hand I think it may be around $23,000 that has been paid.
Trustee Bowers – About $10,000 left.
Trustee Kehoe – Quite frankly I don’t think Mr. Arnold has the capability of really fitting this program to our specifications and requirements and to spend more money with him is just pouring money down a hole. There are alternate ways but if we hire another company it may not solve the problem and they may just dump everything. I think we need to talk to the Department of Planning Services to see what they would actually be able to do.
Folk – You’re saying that he has not been able to complete it to our specifications, were those detailed in the contract? According to the contract, has his obligations been fulfilled? If it has, we owe him the other $10,000.
Trustee Bowers – I think we would have to go over that too.
Trustee Butler – We have a five-day clause. We can write him a note, say goodbye, five-day notice and it’s terminated right there.
Trustee Kehoe – I can’t say that the contract has been fulfilled.
Trustee Butler – There’s no fulfillment in here. It’s wide open. It talks about on going and we are talking over 2 ½ years and by his own time table the maximum should have been 1-½ years.
Zoning Inspector Strogin – Has anybody actually contacted Mr. Arnold and told him these are the problems we see with the document. This is what we are looking for and we want to you revise the document per our recommendations.
Chair Schoonover – No, there has not been a point person so there hasn’t been a meeting.
Zoning Inspector Strogin – I think before you write him off or spend any more money the Board of Trustees or the Zoning Commission, or perhaps jointly, should sit down and say to him you don’t like the comments that are in there. Some of it is frivolous and we’re looking for definitive, which could be put in five or six pages, so you would know where commercial, residential, high-density, etc. is wanted.
Folk – I think we are all in agreement with that. Our only problem is how to do we get there.
Chair Schoonover – The problem is if we give him the chance, do we have to pay him more money? Do we have to pay him all of the contract money?
Trustee Butler – It’s open-ended. He just charges and charges - there is no limit.
Chair Schoonover – If we sit down and have this meeting that has been suggested do we have to pay him more money?
Trustee Butler – It’s in the contract. He’s putting time in. We had this meeting a couple of weeks ago and he stated there are different types of comprehensive plans and this one is more of a visionary plan. We are looking for something to give us guidance – this plan is a visionary plan.
Shanley – Whoever else this is given to and what they can do with it is going to be predicated on the quality of the information that we have. I’m not sure what someone else is going to be able to take and develop. Is the raw information here?
Chair Schoonover – I believe the raw information is there from our meetings. I believe we spent enough time flushing it out and discussing it. I believe if we had a point person from the Zoning Commission, a point person from the Trustees and somebody from the Department of Planning Services sit down we could come up with what needs to be done and talk to them about how they could provide us with that and a time table and a cost.
Trustee Kehoe – Yes, the raw material, all the maps, all the charts, all of the information that has been generated as to the population, growth, etc. is accurate information and it came out of the Planning Department. They would be aware of it but some things would have to be brought up-to-date.
Trustee Bowers - This is a meeting tonight between the Board of Trustees and the Zoning Commission. We’re here to make a decision. We are not here to beat up what’s happened, just to figure out where to go. I’ll toss out a couple of suggestions. One thing I think we need to take the contract to the Prosecutor’s Office. I’ve got some concerns about some things in the contract that I believe have not been done. If Shirley’s memory is correct, the cap on the contract is $38,800. If $23,000 is all that has been used then we’ve still got $15,000. Second, we’ve got two collaborative partners who were involved, which is Ohio State University and the Department of Planning Services.
Someone needs to take the draft document that we have to see what the recommendations would be from those entities – to see what they would recommend to do with it and what it would cost. If we want to have a point person to meet with Mr. Arnold, I would recommend that it be done with our attorney present. Those are the things that I think we might want to do.
Trustee Butler – I would only amend by saying that the $38,800 is not the cap. It says in the contract that reimbursable expenses, additional expenses, and extra/optional services identified throughout the plan process may be included as extra services. It’s wide open.
Chair Schoonover – The Department of Planning Services feedback on this is basically the same as the Zoning Commission in that it is lacking some solid implementation. We are not here to lay blame for anything. We’re here to move the community forward – that’s my goal because I know how vital it is that we have this document for our township. I will volunteer to be the point person to meet with the Planning Department but I would prefer that if there is any discussion with Mr. Arnold that it would be with one of the trustees and our attorney.
Trustee Butler – I will offer to terminate his contract immediately. Why not? The discussion is billable hours.
Folk – I would prefer not to do that right now.
Trustee Kehoe – I think we need to talk with him to start with and I think we need to have our attorney present.
Trustee Bowers – Why don’t the trustees schedule a meeting with Mr. Arnold and our attorney and do it with all of us in the room so that we all can have a discussion about the contract. I think there are issues in the contract.
Chair Schoonover – My concern is that if we have this meeting before we have met with the Department of Planning Services and OSU and know what they have to offer – we need to know what the alternatives are before the meeting with Mr. Arnold. I really think that we need to flush out Planning Services and OSU to see what they could do. They have done plans for other communities.
Trustee Butler – I’m saying that is an alternative. We don’t need to drag this out and pay somebody who in 2 ½ - 3 years hasn’t done anything.
Trustee Bowers – For argument sake, what if we had a meeting with Mr. Arnold and he said this is what I proposed and this is the way I thought you wanted to go but if you want it the other way, I’ll do it the other way. Does he know that we have these concerns?
Chair Schoonover – No, because we wanted to have this meeting first. I didn’t feel it was within my role as the Zoning Commission chair to speak to this gentleman. I’m not one of the people who signed the contract. I feel that somebody else needs to take on that legal role. I’m more than happy to get a copy of the contract to the Prosecutor’s Office and Peggy and I, or anybody, would be more than happy to talk to … (Karen Schoonover will talk with the Department of Planning Services and Peggy Folk will talk with Dave Civittolo at the OSU office.)
Trustee Bowers – As an AICP he clearly has training on what a traditional inside the box comprehensive plan looks like and I think we would be remiss in not telling him that certain structural components of a traditional comprehensive plan are lacking and we would like to see them and see if that is something that can be done. I’m not saying we hire him to do it, but at least find out.
Trustee Kehoe – The Prosecutor’s Office already has a copy of the contract – they okayed it. We just need to talk to them about the problems we have a concern about.
Zoning Inspector Strogin – In all fairness I think as a township you need to give him one opportunity. You say, this is what we expected and it’s not here, can you modify this, how long will it take and what’s the cost. Otherwise if he can’t you can find somebody else but if you don’t give him an opportunity I think he might have some legal recourse.
Trustee Butler – Cut bait and be done with it.
Folk – It’s not only about legal recourse – it’s about doing the right thing. It’s not always about doing the legal thing. It’s about doing the right thing and the right thing is to say to him, these are our problems (A, B, C etc.), can you do that within this time period and if you can’t, that’s okay, we’re terminating your contract because we need to go find somebody else to give us what we need. It’s about doing the right moral thing and not always the legal thing.
Chair Schoonover – As trustees take a minute and listen to what she said – what do you individually as trustees want to do? Remember what you are doing is for the good of the township. You may have thought this plan got here by hook or by crook whatever but it took a long time - what do you want to do going forward?
Trustee Kehoe – Okay, I’ll start. I have to agree that we need to talk to him to find out what needs to be done here. We need to at least express to him our concerns and find out whether or not he has the capability of completing this plan within a specified time frame and to give us what we are looking for. This is, as I said before, a lot of wish lists. I wish I could go on somebody’s property, private property, and use it – that’s not part of it. There’s too much fluff in this thing. It needs to be condensed. There is just too much garbage in there. But we need to talk to the man and find out what his capabilities are. In the meantime as the zoning commission I think you need to go and find out where we can get alternative plans for us. Additionally we need to contact the Prosecutor’s Office and explain our concerns. While we are having a meeting with Mr. Arnold, we need to have Bill Thorne or some other Prosecutor’s Office representative present because I don’t want this individual to turn around and say now you owe me a million dollars or whatever even though it says we’ve got five days to terminate the contract. Plus I think we need to get possession of all the charts and information that has been generated for our benefit – we paid for it and we need to have it.
Chair Schoonover – I think what Lee (Kehoe) has said is a very good suggestion.
Trustee
Trustee Bowers – I think we need to initiate dialogue with the collaborative partners to see what their recommendations are and to see what costs would be associated with it, if they could take the stuff that we’ve got and make it more. Two, I think the trustees need to have a meeting with our legal counsel to discuss the contract and the concerns. We all need to get together and ask our questions just to know where we stand. And the last thing is to identify someone or a team whatever to initiate that dialogue with Mr. Arnold and tell him what we expect and ask if he can do it, the time frame and costs.
Shrehle – One of the things mentioned is that everybody is worried of him backing out of this thing and saying I did my obligation. With him being a member of AIA, they have a code of conduct so beyond any legal repercussions or anything like that they could be contacted.
Chair Schoonover – Okay, the trustees are going to have a meeting with Bill Thorne regarding the contract.
Trustee
Trustee Kehoe – I think that should be a combination of trustees and zoning.
Chair Schoonover – I will meet with the Department of
Planning Services and Peggy Folk will meet with Dave Civittolo at the OSU
office just to flush out what those agencies could do. We will do that simultaneously so that we
have some information available soon as to what our alternatives might be. We’ll report back to Don (
Trustee Kehoe - I’ll contact Mr. Thorne and set up an appointment for all the trustees to meet with him. He will be asked to review the contract prior to the meeting. Then we need the Board of Trustees and the Zoning Commission to sit down with Mr. Arnold to let him know what our situation is and what we would demand or require of him if he is willing to more forward and do it and what kind of time frame and at what cost.
Biskup – As a zoning board, we need to come up with that punch list of things that need to be done.
Trustee Bowers – But so do the trustees. It’s not a zoning document. We should all be doing that. We are all charged with representing this township – all of us need to be involved in this.
Biskup – Our primary focus is going to be the zoning end of it. We need the backbone behind the wish list and the sticky notes and we’ve heard over the past three years that we need the plan but it if came out like this there would be an uproar in the community. If everyday Joe picked this up he wouldn’t understand it.
Trustee Kehoe – The comprehensive plan is the backbone and the basis for zoning. It may not be a zoning issue and it may not be a zoning document but it is the backbone of it because you define where you want to go.
Shanley – I’m curious as to what kind of a time line do you have in mind.
Chair Schoonover – We don’t have a time line yet because I think we need to go ahead and have some of these meetings first. Everyone will be making the contacts and it will keep flowing. I would say at the latest we should be able to have information to talk again as this group together in about another month.
A few questions were asked and brief discussion followed pertaining to the earlier presentation to the trustees relative to the creation of a Community Reinvestment Area.
Upon motion by Karen Schoonover, duly seconded by Mike
Biskup, it was unanimous that the Zoning Commission meeting be adjourned. Adjourned at